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Blether away !

As requested, a topic with no subject and no end, in a forum all on its own. 

So post whatever you want here whenever you want. No rules except be nice to each other.


Please delete the new topic I started here in the Blether section. Maybe you can remove the option to start a new topic altogether from here as it would kind of defeat the purpose of your aim to have all posts here under the one thread.

While I'm making requests, any chance of providing a contact button or address where readers could get in touch directly without going through the board?

There's no way to stop people starting new topics at the moment, I will delete them or move them manually when/if it happens.

There is already a contact form on the home page.

Thanks, I never visit the homepage and that's why I haven't seen the contact form. I have the forum saved as a bookmark and use that to come here directly but at least now I know.

If there is no way to stop people from starting new topics at the moment is there any way to force the link from the forum directly to this post rather than a subset of the forum where you then must click on this post? Just trying to be helpful with a suggestion and not step on any toes 🙂

I'll take this as an opportunity to have a wee rant of my own, something I'm noticing fairly often elsewhere but most commonly against the SNP and in particular Nicola Sturgeon. They will be some who are doing this deliberately as it is undoubtedly part of Unionist strategy to weaken the morale of the more enthusiastic Independence supporters. That's you by the way.

Others are just falling in with the herd and blindly following because they themselves have become lost as they start to believe in the lack of leadership narrative and that it's all a lost cause. This is pure and simple propaganda at it's most effective!

We know when morale is high because it can be seen in the determination, enthusiasm, and self-confidence of those taking part "for their side", it is positively upbeat and helps explain the positivity of the Yes side in the 2014 campaign. The other obvious sign of high morale is the relevant absence of criticism or complaint, few are grumbling because they remain positive.

Sadly it's taken hold throughout the movement and we ourselves are the enemy within. The easiest way to reduce morale is to demoralise a movement's supporters by attacking their leadership's abilities, usually through rumour or lies, more often both together. The other is to attack the abject futility of their cause, making supporters believe they cannot win so may as well give up.

That's what is happening now and it has a foothold in the Yes movement.

There are enough though that are and will always remain positive and be ready to continue the fight for Independence no matter what Friday brings or next week or next year. Winning Independence is not known as a "struggle" for nothing.

Claim of Right debate just started in Westminster.


The benches are empty of the Unionist parties.

Well, what a load of crap that was. Westminster is NOT fit for purpose.

I only watched a few minutes of it before deciding watching something that makes me angry is not a good idea before going to sleep.

Night night 

Michael Barnier gave a speech at Queen's University Belfast last night, he never pulled any punches. It's a 50 minute video including the Q&A at the end. Just watch the beginning though to get a flavour. Johnson has his work cut out in doing a deal with the EU by December and NI will be having checks in the Irish Sea.

I see that Gordon Ross is saying that an independent poll is showing 57% support for independence and that Aidan O'Neil QC is saying that Section 5 of the Scotland Act highlights that the Scottish Parliament can hold a legal referendum. Worth a watch. https://youtu.be/zciQpqkFItg

If there is no way to stop people from starting new topics at the moment is there any way to force the link from the forum directly to this post rather than a subset of the forum where you then must click on this post? Just trying to be helpful with a suggestion and not step on any toes

Not going to do that because I believe threaded topics are a better idea, and the way hundreds of other Internet fora work successfully. 

This thread is here by request, but it is not going to be the be-all and end-all of the site. You can bookmark this thread yourself though if it is the only part of the site you are interested in. 

Hi Scots I think you misunderstood what I was asking. I totally agree that threaded topics are a better idea and that's what I have bookmarked a direct link to the forum page. What I was referring to was a way of preventing people from starting new topics on the "Blether" page was bring them straight to this page and bypass the page offering an option to start a new topic.

I'm absolutely fine as it is and was trying to help prevent people from starting a new topic here as I did on my first visit.


I see that David McEwan Hill submitted a letter to the National yesterday stating that, "On February 1 the UK is no longer a member state of the EU. The EU therefore is free to comment on our independence campaign and Scotland's future as a member state of the EU if that is what we want. I await developments with some confidence."

Anyone else got an opinion on this? 



My view is pretty clear, the EU will say and do absolutely nothing that could hinder getting the type of deal they want from the UK for their own member countries each who have their own specific wishlists. France, Denmark and Spain for Fishing, for example, Germany for manufacturing ect, ect.

There might be a titbit thrown our way from individual MEP's in a private capacity but as for any kind of official backing for Independence I think not, though statements in response to direct questions from the media are likely to be seen as being more helpful with regard to subjects such as rejoining the EU.

There's unlikely, in my opinion, to be any more of the "back of the queue" stuff or Spanish veto's, just straightforward answers, that's my tuppence worth anyway.

Maybe Petra but I think they will keep their powder dry for a bit rather than come out with all guns blazing.   One thing that might influence them when they start the Brexit discussions is, as Thepnr pointed out yesterday, that the majority of the fishing waters are Scottish.

Yeh that's what I reckoned too folks, however hoping that Dave proves us wrong.

And moving on, say Westminster manages to agree on a fisheries deal with the EU and then we get our independence will that trade deal be automatically made null and void or will we have a fight on our hands over that? In fact every trade deal that's made involving our country. Any thoughts on that?

That one is above my pay grade.  It is quite a thought though 

I have a speck of dust in my eye 




As you'll be aware as well as the indyref2 debate at Holyrood there will also be a vote on whether or not the EU flag or more properly the Council of Europe flag will continue to be flown at Holyrood after 23:00 on 31st, the vote has the backing of the Greens and the SNP so the flag will continue to fly.

Being really pissed off with this action by the SNP the Daily Express have written an article asking if flying the EU flag after we Brexit should be made illegal. So far 87% has said yes and a number of Brexiteers have taken to twitter to call for it to be made illegal.

"Yes it should be made illegal, come our independence day there should be a public EU flag burning ceremony," responded one.

"The UK should make it illegal for the Antidemocratic EU flag to be flown or displayed anywhere within Britain," tweeted another at Boris Johnson.

"It should carry a 3 month prison sentence & £5k fine," said another, copying in home secretary Priti Patel.

Others suggested car license plates with EU flags should also be made illegal.

"Time to ban the EU flag on UK number plates. Say by the end of 2020, it should be treated as any other illegal plate," read one tweet.

"Our flag our country show the pride fly the flag" posted Anna Cottage.


Who is it again that accuse the Nationalist of being obsessed with flags? I think they're looking in the wrong direction 🙂

Deary me Thepnr, I can never quite figure out what goes on in the head of some of these people. Certainly not democratic or tolerant. We " up there" just have to dae as we're telt, it is of no consequence that we voted to remain within the EU. The great people of Engerland have spoken for us, so there.


Oh for the love of god Nicola, give us some good news of Friday, or at least some hope.

Thepnr are you hacking my iPad?  I had just read that on the New European and lo you posted it here.  

I liked the response on Twitter to Labour saying the SNP are obsessed with flags- “remind me-what is it you sing at the end of your conference?”

Haha Ann, no hacking involved I guess we're just interested in the same kind of news 🙂

Speck of dust in your eye Ann? This'll have you greetin. 


"Come our Independence Day". Oh the irony, eh Thepnr, in relation to Mr or Mrs Undemocratic. No having to request a Section 30 order for them. Anyway that's it for me. I'll be adding EU stickers to my SNP etc collection etc and I'll now be ordering an EU flag to fly alongside the Saltire in my garden. And I hope that MANY others will join me, if they haven't done so already.

Referendums (Scotland) Bill. Royal assent received on the 29th January 2020.



Thanks for that Petra, I forgot to keep my eye on the page. Another hurdle cleared, and I did wonder if it might "accicentally" get delayed till February. The time scale for Royal Assent "normally within 7 to 10 working days" after the 28 days waiting for a challenge, was real tight. On another matter I think the more noise the better, so the more people complaining about the SNP the better. It's kind of like a pub with a whole load of blethers going on, you can't hear the one in the corner that's the important one. Hopefully anyway! Here's an interesting thread, and since Joanna Cherry has tweeted it so can I (never know at the moment whether mum's the word or should we all blether all over the place?):


"multi faceted strategy".

I like that 🙂

Get delayed, Yesindyref2? I thought so too but seemingly not. I'm just wondering if they'll come up with something to stymie this or is paranoia setting in, lol?

Joanna Cherry is seemingly referring to something that's been stated in the Scotland Act. Section 5 I think. Aidan O'Neil QC reckons that there is a loophole. When I get time I'll check it out later. Or maybe you'll beat me to that, lol?

Does anyone know what time Nicola is on tomorrow?  

Great innovation.  This is now my first port of call each day.  Please keep up the good work.

Welcome Robert, nice to see another person joining in. Yes very interesting from Joanna Cherry, now there's a lady who knows exactly what she is doing. I'm pleased that she's on our side.

I had wondered too about the referendum bill, it seemed to be taking a helluva long time, or had our wonderful presiding officer been at it again. holding things up till down there had it spanners ready to put in the works. Pleased all seems well.

Ah well, we just have to be patient, tomorrow is not far away now. I hope when Nicola speaks to us, she has something very interesting to tell us. I reckon that she's been keeping her powder dry up till now.  Here's hoping there might be a date for a new referendum somewhere in there, but mibbies that a bit too much to hope for at the moment. Time will tell.

The singing of Auld Lang Syne was very moving.  And very sad.  I really am hoping that tomorrow brings good and positive news from Nicola

Yeh a great big welcome from me too Robert. 

I don't see anything online Ann to indicate when the FM will make her speech. It's coming for aw that!

Check out the National for the latest news from us now leading in the polls, to Leonard making an erse of himself again, Thornberry's apology and wee cokehead, toadfaced Gove "allowing" the Scots to join the Brexit negotiations. Eh!

Better still subscribe to / buy the newspaper if you can afford to do so.


Still not been picked up by the news, including the ScotGov news page. Here it is enacted now:


Can't help feeling there might be a lot going on tomorrow. Certainly hope so 😎

Yesindyref2, I've just been reading on here that Nicola Sturgeon will be making an announcement tomorrow at 9.30am, however can't find corroboration of that elsewhere.

And as the Westminster runts treat Scotland like the invisible man (or woman) over 40 countries are sending their television companies to Scotland tomorrow. They'll no like that. 



It looks as though Boris Johnston is going to cherrypick the Australian points based immigration system whereby the Australian Government has devolved power to a number of states. Westminster has used every dirty trick in the book to clear Scotland of it's population and bring her to her knees. This is just another. How a once proud Kingdom ever allowed itself to be shackled like this is beyond me.


The BBC seemingly knows what Nicola Sturgeon is going to say today.


Donald Tusk on Marr this morning stating that an independent Scotland will be enthusiastically welcomed into the EU. What a bummer for Boris, eh? It looks as though he's going to have to spend more than £5million on his anti-independence propaganda blitz to make any headway north of the border now.



I know I shouldn't but ...

EU 24, Jonny May 17

Hoping for some good news from James Kelly.

Posted by Nana on the links section. Reposted here if you don't mind.





Ouch Nana, poor James Kelly will be doing his dinger, well he would try and tease 🙂

I jumped the gun, thankfully it is not JK's poll but Progress Scotland from just over a week ago. Stand down and breath easy LOL

Hi Thepnr,

I'm sure he will be 🙂 Hahaha

and yes it is a Progress poll, I've been out of the loop for a while and didn't even see one last week. James Kelly had better watch out though, sure someone else we know has the results by now.

There was also the Yougov poll last week that put Yes on 51% that's why I thought this was Scot Goes Pop's poll results. Progress Scotland didn't publish the results to the referendum question but focused instead on the 61% who said the referendum question and when should be in the power of Holyrood to decide and not Westminster.

Typical though nothing for ages then three come along at once 🙂

I saw the yougov one at 51%, it caused a wee bit of a stir 🙂

Hope James's one is good.



@ Nana


Yep! Saw that piece. 🙂

Morning Macart

Here's James's poll


Can't wait to see what made James Kelly's jaw drop to the floor, lol.

@ Nana


Oh, I suspect minds are beginning to focus about now Nana. Mr Kelly's poll results so far seem to bear this out. Mind you, I'd like to see this route of travel repeated a time or two more. 😉


Here's hoping we an keep the momentum going. Keep on sharing information folks, that's the way to do it!


The SNP has just hired Murray "The Vow" Foote as their new media chief. Bit of a turn up, though when he retired from the Record he did come out and say he now supported Independence and the SNP. I think his main job in the not too distant future while be handling the reporting of Alex Salmond's trial.


I see that Murray reckons that he was "duped" in the lead up to Indyref1. Let's hope that he'll use his talent, knowledge, commitment, energy and contacts into doing something extremely constructive for us now in the lead up to Indyref2.

And so it begins.  I have just heard that an acquaintance in London has heard the same story from two different Scottish friends against Nicola personally.  I will not give this story oxygen by repeating it but I suspect it is for the London market as I think it would rebound badly on anyone citing it here.

 I suppose it shows they are worried.


@marie-clark Have you seen this?  It explains what has been puzzling us

Arsenal chairman’s £5k donation to Alister Jack’s fund revealed




It seems from comments on other sites there is a view that forums are not as popular as blogs and that this site's existence  dilutes other sites.

e.g. from Wings
Dan says:
5 February, 2020 at 11:45 pm

"Various long term commenters on Wings also migrated over there after “differences of opinion clashes” on this site, but it isn’t particularly busy over there.

In my view this has significantly diminished the spectrum of opinion and knowledge btl on Wings for not a great deal of gain on the other site due to dilution of commenters."

I for one still support the work that Rev Stu did and hopefully will do however the BTL comments there have degenerated into an unmoderated mess where most of the posts are either repetitive pretentiousness or Trolls baiting and fools biting back.

On here we give folk a space to chat and discuss yet they seem to prefer to bicker elsewhere.

If they took the time to stay for a while and contribute then this place could be a ‘home from home’.

I mean, we all go to other blogs and sites during our travels do we not, well at least I always have.

I think this place is simple to get on and use so why do some folk seem to find it so hard to even try, far less comment ?

Forums have been around much longer than Blogs yet the Indy movement seems rooted in the Blogsphere.

Why, is it the Forum format ? 

@ hackalumpoff


Never found the format here difficult tbh and like yourself I visit a number of sites (blogs and otherwise). I don't comment much anywhere these days, except to say HI to chums and offer the odd observation (some might say 'very odd' - badoomtish). I visit here and the other sites regularly though, just to keep reasonably informed.

As for not commenting btl on Wings? Well... tbh, I've said mostly what I've had to say on most subjects over the years. Most btl on Wings wouldn't be/aren't going to be interested in anything I might add to their conversations. Also? I'm not in the zooper bright category of debaters/experts. (shrugs) 😎

Hear, hear, hacka. I agree with you, it's the very reason that I stopped posting on WOS. It's a sorry mess now, as you say they seem to like to bicker more than anything else. I found it quite unbearable a while ago, and I can't say that I miss it. My real bugbear was the folks who should have known better, trying to argue with the trolls, when it was quite clear what they were up too. Between that and the psycho babble pretentious waffle taking over the site, well, sad to say enough was enough.

I don't know why we maybe don't get more folk. I've heard some say it's difficult to navigate the site, but I didn't find that  at all, and I'm not that computer literate. It's nice to get other points of view and civil discussion on here, so I'm happy to stay.

@ Macart & Marie

Thanks for that, good to know I'm not alone 😁

Speaking of saying 'HI' to chums...


HI Marie! 🙂

Hi Marie,

If a thicko like me can find their way about and even do a wee bit of linking then anyone can. Perhaps people have become used to doing things a certain way and have no interest in doing things differently. Gawd help the independence movement!


Hi Macart and Nana. yep as you say Nana, Gawd help the independence movement, it's gonna be a tough few days with this mornings news. Boy are the Britnats full of glee, but they should always remember the old adage about people in glass houses.

None of the last dozen comments I have posted on Wings have come up, so I assume I am now banned from posting. Frankly it's a relief as it  is an unpleasant place to visit right now.

Let us hope that when the call comes the Rev. rises from his own ashes to do what he is good at, debunking the Unionist media and their lies and distortions.

I didn't realise that people had been criticising the very existence of this site. That seems bizarre, verging on cultist. I have always been of the opinion that the more widely pro-indy info is disseminated the more people are likely to see it. I spent years encouraging people to go to Wings, for example, but for some the site had such a (totally undeserved) toxic rep that they simply would not visit.


@ Webcraft/ Nick

I don't think Dan on Wings was specifically criticising this site. In fact he provided a link to here for someone who asked where indyref2 was as it had been mentioned upthread on Wings. 

I merely used his comment as an example of what got me thinking about the low responses on here. 

Just thought  I would avoid the main topic on the Scottish "news" today 🤫

I don't see Mr Campbell rising from the ashes at all. I read every solitary post on that site for years, through popping in and out a few times every day, and you could see what was going on. Step by step over time. To avoid getting myself into trouble, I'll just say that I don't think Mr Campbell is the person/s who has been at the forefront of running that site for quite some time now.

Meanwhile it's absolutely horrendous over there, sad to say, but will still be converting people no doubt to supporting the Union. Genuine independence supporters have been banned or scunnered off,  posts are blocked and the BritNats are ruling the roost with a handful of decent people left attempting to reason with them. All working to plan.

I really miss Robert Peffers and I hope he is keeping well. More than anything I wish he could find his way onto this site.


What I noticed after we, and others, left was the almost immediate appearance of a whole host of new names/posters appearing on that site.  Odd because until then it had been a steady core of posters with one or two new names appearing from time to time.

Like you I hope Mr Peffers is well.

I look in at Wings occasionally, and just to point out I didn't leave voluntarily, I disagreed with the blog owner and that's not allowed so my later postings never appeared. Anyways, the Herald and The National at last closed the threads which should never have been open in the first place as police action may be involved (hopefully), here's a great posting from Liz g which says it all for me, having kids of my own and done my best to keep them from harm:


and that's all I have to say about THAT.

I agree 100% with LizG. Well said that woman. 

Re Hacka's post 

I am hopeful once we have something to aim for Stu will come back on past form.  

I visit the site every day as most people do, past and current commentators alike and I will continue to support Wings over Scotland.

Sometimes the message we hear is not the one we would all like. 

I read LizG's post on Wings and of course she is spot on. What really irritates me is that we've heard no more about the Westminster paedophile scandal (etc etc), investigations into people like Ross Thomson and in fact Boris Johnston and the Arcuri case. No big deal made of any of it by the MSM and then just swept under the carpet; one big enough to cover Camp Nou stadium.


Hi folks, LizG has been on WGD's outlining that she's been having difficulty in posting on here, so has asked me to pass this message on to you, as follows.


''Hi everyone, I do visit and read what your all saying… I’ve tried twice in the past to comment and not quite made it.
I followed Normans instructions the best I could but no joy. I’ll have to wait till one of my co-pilots are around and pin them to help.


Re the New Party …. Just an FYI for the site owner….

I pointed out to my friend that this site has offered online resources to Indy groups should they need one and she has past that on for them to consider.

We didn’t know what their plans were in that direction but they will need an online presence and there’s an ( to coin a phrase) “oven ready ” one right here. So I hope you don’t mind?

All my best to everyone and I’ll get on this forum sooner or later xxx''



Would be nice to have your input Liz, here's hoping you manage to get your shit together and post LOL. Just pulling your leg of course, looking forward to your contributions 🙂

Well done all for getting the blethering going.  Having been lurking for a while, though I think the login is now in place.  So here's something that is causing some angst.

I read Robin McAlpine's weekly blurb over at Common Space earlier.  He has some interesting points and I find myself considering the Indy strategy, having some considerable time ago recognised that the political strategy in getting us a vote was significantly different from the Yes strategy in winning it, especially against the constant SNP Baaad agenda.  So I value groups such as CW, BfS, SIC and more so our local yes Hub, and step back from party politics.

Robin's latest post has been dismissed as Incoherent Ramblings and sowing discord from within the party, at least at local branch level.  But I find myself considering even further the political strategy, and now wondering whether the best approach is from within or without.  My voting strategy won't change, pre Indy; my funding policies could change further, as could my time and efforts.

Am I alone in this thinking?  Has Robin got it right, after some years of frustration.  Conference now deferred, ergo no discussions from the floor, even if major and relevant issues could make it to the agenda.  Getting disillusioned, with that side of things.


I read it and did some checking. Common weal / common space (are they the same thing?) do some good stuff, as does common green. But it tends to represent left of centre only. As a certain blog owner found out in astonishment, Scotland is not as socialist as many people presume it is. People want to get the fruits of their own hard work and risk. The left idea is that the state would take it first and let them have some of it back if it wanted to. Well, go-getters will go and get - elsewhere. We've had to do it for decades, probably hundreds of years.

So quite rightly the SNP have put the brakes on this, they don't rubber-stamp commonspace policies. As the guy says: "When Common Weal says here are solid policy answers, Nicola says she'll commission solid policy answers.". Well, like, duh, they're a political party with their own policies.

He also takes offence at Sturgeon launching yes.scot a day before the launch of Voices for Scotland, Here's from The National dated 24th April 2019: "On the same day on which Nicola Sturgeon updated Holyrood on the next steps towards a second referendum on Scottish independence, her party has made the website Yes.scot live."


But he claims that as enemy action, whereas the National article dated 26th April 2019 about it has this to say: "FIRST Minister Nicola Sturgeon has welcomed the launch of a new pro-independence campaign organisation Voices for Scotland. "


He's got a fractured ego because it wasn't well received when Voices for Scotland with a totally duff website where only "donate" came across as a message, a couple of weeks back claimed basically that we were all to do as were told and eat our cereal, it was the boss of Indy and how we should all behave and do stuff as we clearly weren't already. For some odd reason that didn't go down well with some of us. It seems they don't understand the word "Independent" - or grassroots for that matter.

There's too many egos wanting massage. We're going to need more massage parlours!

The Brexit Song 


Haha Anne that was enjoyable. I hope you don't mind but I'm hopefully pasting an embedded link?

Don’t mind at all.  Is it better than the palaver that I go through to put it up? Do you just copy and paste direct from YouTube?


Did you hear the fine voice they were in at Murrayfield?  I’m not watching it in case I put a jinx on them.

Hi Anne

Yes just a direct copy and paste from youtube but on a laptop and not a mobile. I'm watching the game as well, I'm hopeful as always 🙂

I've just read this over on the link section. As stated already (there) I'll have to read it again in case I've missed something. Looks to me as though we've got no way of getting out of this Union, as per the authors of the piece!!!


@petra I am not ignoring you- I just haven’t read it myself.  I did have a quick look, didn’t like what it was saying and left it for when I had time to read it properly.  Which is no excuse. Just because I don’t like what it says doesn’t mean I shouldn’t read and think about it’s message- especially when it is by people whose opinion I respect.  Unlikely to have time today though.  Procrastination is a wonderful thing!


Well, Aileen McHarg co-author of one also co-signed Anders et al back in 2012, and after that article Cherry did her thing and McHarg referred BACK to her 2012 article saying something like "some of us already did that" - about the power of Holyrood to hold a referendum which could be challenged in court. So what she and McCorkindale are saying is that the S30 is the approved political route, which is true. Nothing to stop a home grown one though.

Keating is great, one of my old reads as he's quite impartial and brutal I think,  but (there's always a but) starts off with a mistake saying that a Ref can't logistically be held this year. He's wrong, it can, around October of November - if the SG moves fast. That makes the rest of his article a bit of a problem as it has a duff start. He's always worth reading though.

As for Jim Gallagher he's highly biased, being retained by Better Together in IR1. He also claims to have been an architect of the Devolution settlments back in the 90s. Well, who doesn't!

These are quick comments, I'd already read the first paper but didn't have time to read the other two, just a very quick skim over.

SNP Commandments



Forum for discussion of Scottish independence and a second independence referendum.